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I'm in love with this game, THE CLIFF HANGER ON EPISODE 5----

I can't wait for episode six!


(Does anybody know when it's going to come out?)

They don't give out release dates until they're sure when they'll be done. They're still workin hard at it, so it'll be a lil before they have a release date!

here to cry about the cliffhanger

Oh my gosh!! That was such a cliffhanger! Now I can't wait for episode 6!!!

Also, this a lovely visual novel. I haven't read one like this in so long - the artwork is so lovely and all of the characters are amazing as well!! 

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I am absolutely in love with this game sooooooo bad, I've never been so drawn to a Visual Novel like this in ages! And your team's artstyle the story and everything is impeccable and gorgeous!! (I think I'm fangirling to much)

But what I really love is the little details in every background. Like that "kick me" paper that's stuck on one of the seats in the bridge, the save names like, "Over the emo rainbow" I love this save line tbh, I mean Vexx is life for me and my sorry ass here... And I really really can't wait for future updates on this game!! I hope you and your team is doing well on it, and on your health! Can't wait to see chapter 6's release!


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Out of topic here, but my birthday's coming up soon and I surely can't wait for it at all. I'm not being pushy, but is it alright if I could consider  chapter 6 a gift for my birthday? I mean as stupid as it sounds, I'd like to ask for your team's  permission. I hope it's alright. :3

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Ryona is adorable, everyone is manipulative, and Ryona is adorable.

A bit of a spoiler below:

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One thing that really bugged me was that I chose Kitalphan, but my sister didn't have fishy gills. I mean, it could be because the mc was probably born from the second wife and the dad is just a normal human. Idk how genetics work in this story. Does mc even have fishy gills??

Bash and Aya seem very cool. Will definitely replay for Aya's route in the future.

I played the Kitalphan route too, and I'm pretty sure the mc mentions their gills (something about not wanting to put glitter on them), and there were three queens; one for each main race.

Yeah, I chose the Tilaari route, and Nerissa did not have blue skin for me either, which was a little confusing. It might just be a genetics thing, or something they will change in the final release, idk.

Depending on the species you choose at the beginning of the game, your MC's mother will change to whichever of the three Queen's represents that species.

Lucrezia = Human
Nikolle = Kitalphan
Ta'jean = Tilaari

Nerissa is human no matter what, her mother is Lucrezia. 

King Fenris is human, and is MC's father regardless of their species, which means that MC can either be human or half-human and half-Tilaari/Kitalphan.

If Kitalphan is chosen, then MC does have gills, but they are not functional underwater.

Hope that clears it up!

ohhhh, that makes sense! thanks for clarifying :)

Is it OK to stream your game on Twitch? Your FAQs mention video, but not streaming.

Yes, streaming of the main game is okay :)

*offers substantial bribes in form of baked goods*

May we pretty please enquire as to when we can (hopefully) expect another chapter? I'm dying to see more.

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(tread with care, i'm risking the consequences of the internet's unspoken double posting rule to bring you this information)


My Foolproof Guide To Picking Who To Romance First:

June - Pursue if you like big brother-types, space cowboys, blushing, and/or forearms.

Damon - Pursue if you like assassins, devil-may-care mating calls, scarred eyebrows, and/or fingerless gloves.

Calderon - Pursue if you like stick-in-the-muds, height differences, vendettas, and/or men in uniform.

Bash - Pursue if you like engineers, comic relief, tattoos, and/or the Million-Dollar Man.

Vexx - Pursue if you like foxes, bodyguard dynamics, shared history, and/or your scarred eyebrow on the opposite side.

Ayame - Pursue if you like big sister-types, free spirits, the color purple and/or gills.

Ryona - Pursue if you like sick leave, houseplants, Nurse Nightingale Syndrome, and/or the Blue Man Group.

(A.K.A. After thinking I'd be a Vexx fangirl, I'm onboard the Juniper Express now).

I heart this so hard lol<3

PLEASE WHY IS THIS SO TRUE 😭

currently crying <3

Spot on lmaoo

Like I'm all excited for my MC to have her thing with Vexx...but I'm shipping Calderon and Ayame in the background. xD It prolly won't happen--but just imagine a game where you could matchmake the MC AND the side characters (outside of Fire Emblem anyway). Keep up the great work!

yesss lol, it's so fun to think about. like they're all dealing with such SAD backstories and i just want everyone to be happy and find love :(((

I know right?!

This game is soooo good, so advanced and so deep. Most of the time, a single choice can change how the story is written or how your character reacts to things. Can't wait to see what's gonna happen next in the story! also, something I'm very curious about would be the characters' heights 👀

  • Ayame - 165 cm, 
  • Bash - 188cm
  • Calderon - 193 cm
  • Damon - 184 cm
  • June - 194 cm
  • Ryona - 176 cm
  • Vexx - 190cm

dayum they tall

Damn I need to carry a ladder if I want to get kissies

I made a comparison with my own height. Now I feel soo small :D

With the boys:

https://www.mrinitialman.com/OddsEnds/Sizes/compsizes.xhtml?Damon~male~184_Me~fe...

With the girls:

https://www.mrinitialman.com/OddsEnds/Sizes/compsizes.xhtml?Ayame~female~165_Me~...

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I've fallen in love with everything in this game: the story, the characters and the art, the music, etc. Learning about everything and everyone is very enjoyable and interesting. I love it a lot and I look forward to the rest of the story :D

this game is really great! the story was really enjoyable (maybe i was a bit gullible,,, i feel like the whole royal thing should've been obivous lmao) but yeah! honestly,,,, great work! honestly, the art is really cool as well,,,, ple,,, this was a really enjoyable experience and i look forward to more psp

love love love this game!! cant wait for future updates!

This game is down right FANTASTIC! I will be eagerly waiting for the next chapter/part. I have never been so invested in all the characters backgrounds of a VN, it has always been a select few and in some cases not at all. A6 kept me engaged in the story line the whole time and every character had depth. This is going to be in my top rankings of recommended VNs despite it being unfinished (CAO: 30MAR2021). Great work.

Just wanted to say that I love this game so much! <3

'The horses have well and truly left the stable'. Calderon never fails to make me snort with lines like that.

Thank you so much for the update. You have all put so much love and obvious dedication that I can't help but swell with happiness. This is my favourite story on itch.io, thank you for sharing it with us. 

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This  went beyond my expectations; I truly enjoyed every hour I've spent playing A6! I like how the MC appears to be headstrong and determined despite of their mishaps in life. Every scene where the MC becomes sassy and fierce is refreshing, there are not so many visual novels out there which feature MC's like this. It's also admirable how the MC refuses to remain a damsel/damoiseau in distress and chooses to learn to fight for themself. The personalities and design of this game's love interests are worthy of praise too! I love all of them, but so far Vexx, June and Damon are my personal favorites. ----*SPOILER ALERT!!*---- Although personally, If I'm on the MC's shoes, I'll be quite hesitant on pursuing  Damon, after all, it turned out he might have someone else waiting for him in Cursa, someone he would like to go back to. I'll always enjoy the playful bickering between him and the MC tho.

Speaking of Damon, there is just one thing in this game that kind of put me off. I do understand that all of the characters had suffered in so many terrible ways-- (their back stories are so well written, kudos!)-- because of the previous king, but still; In the arc of finally unveiling the MC's real identity and the commotion that follows, I think the MC forgave Damon WAY too early. I mean, if someone you consider as a friend casually tells you that they'd rather turn you over to the person who killed your entire family, who would definitely kill you too once they get their hands on you, would you have forgiven that friend who's willing to sell you out to them as easy as that?  All because you're scorned for the crimes committed by your father, who barely treated you right as well? MC seems to handle betrayal and/or possible betrayals too lightly. Oh well, maybe being too trusting and forgiving are parts of the personality of the MC from the get-go, which may have every potential to be a flaw or weakness in the long run. It'll be interesting to see more about how this part of them will turn out and the situations it'll bring them to, as the story progress.  I'll be rooting for this, and the whole game in general.

All in all, Andromeda Six is the perfect combination of romance, angst, drama, action, adventure and comedy. Plus, you also get to travel on outer space and explore different planets, that's a great bonus indeed! So if you're looking for a visual novel that'll take you for a quite literally out-of-this-world ride, then this game is for you. A6 is definitely worth a try, though keep in mind that this is still under development. Let's all wait patiently~!! oh and for the game developers, thank you for your hard work! Y'all are awesome :) *chef's kiss* mwah!

I cant wait for episode 4 I know it will be some time but....Eagerly awaiting it!

I found the game yesterday looking for something to do and at first I thought I wouldn't finish it. But wow! I really liked it. The story, the characters, the scene drawings, even the music. Just incredible <3

I really appreciate the pronoun selection, since I'm non binary.

The only thing I would love is that someone could give voice to the characters, even if is just for a couple of scenes, it would be awesome.

Keep on this track and it will be a great game.

Greetings from Spain :P

I really enjoyed this game, the story is really rich, and i loved the universe ! Characters and their background are good to, dialoque interesting. I have just a question, is that we can choice between different races, but  how a planet where we can find a majority of human can be ruled by Tilaari or Kitalphaan ?

Love this, Kind of hoping for some polyamory stuff, and maybe more blush-y Damon scenes I enjoy those.

This game is fantastic! I love the storyline (so far), the characters, the dialogue, even the little stuff like being given the choice to listen to backstories/exposition and being able to play as a non-binary character (I identify as non-binary as well). I'm really looking forward to the next episode! 

I can't believe how much I've loved this! I'm so glad I found this game. I hope this continues, and I will def b checking out patreon.

ahhhh this is so good in every single way!! not only the story is line is extremely interesting, it's so engrossing that i had a really hard time trying to stop myself from reading this all day. the conversations always managed to keep me on my feet and i love how we got to learn who our character is later on. keep up the good work!! can't wait for episode 4. when do you think its gonna be released??

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Hi! I hope my comment doesn't come off a rude, but would it be okay to ask I guess, everyone what shows that the MC is suffering from shock or PSTD, particularly in the interaction with Damon? 

I replayed the game, in V3.1 and from what I saw the MC's interaction as, they seemed very quick to joke/smile (in the comment about cats) or their identity as a royal ("I could have your head" said jokingly) and they're very empathetic and considerate of Damon and his past/ why he chose to throw them to Zovack? Also, the MC seem to want to make a good impression on him, because even if the MC walks away, you can either flirt (gain his attention), or to befriend him. I think the way the MC is interacting with Damon, they feel a little bit outgoing (joking), and even understanding to his past and plight?

This is completely my own personal opinion, and I haven't experienced PTSD or anything like such, but when I analyze the MCs interactions, I can't really relate to what I've believe (I can definitely be wrong/ ignorant), are typical actions for a MC, suffering from shock/trauma from their past (  their entire family being killed for being royalty and being betrayed by Vexx, their only friend. Also knowing that Vexx wants them dead just the same.)  The MC seems to be really quick to bounce back and throw jokes, especially to Damon - who suggested what I see as one of the most shocking things that he could suggest - the MC dying just like her family. By the hands of their murderer in cold blood. The MC is satisfied with just knowing Damon changed his mind for now. There's nothing that I would really attribute to shock?

For example, knowing that my family is dead and that my best and only friend, also planned for me to be dead with themI wouldn't have forgiven Damon's comment, or want to befriend/flirt with another person would be okay with seeing me killed. How could I possibly want to interact or feel okay with socializing with someone like Damon if there was such a glaring fact that he'd stab me in the back just like Vexx, my only friend? 

  Personally, I feel like the MC resolved/ forgave Damon for his comment very quickly? In the way that if the MC were in shock/ PTSD they'd overthink, take his comment to the heart, have a huge fear of being betrayed/killed, rather than treat the comment as a "okay, he said it, but he doesn't mean it to do it now, so that's okay." I really don't want to offend anyone, so if you think that the MC's reactions were on point with shock/PTSD I'd really like to know and I promise I'll try my best to relate to their actions.


I just want to say, I do like the game, the characters, Damon too, and I'm excited to see where the plot line will go. I just have a lot of time on my hands I guess and really want to analyze the heck out of the MC.

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That's the point. Nothing indicates that there is smth wrong with the MC. In fact, they seem to be strangely too ok? Smiling, joking, willingly communicating with everyone. If I was in a situation like theirs (luckily, I wasn't, but I guess everyone knows death and betrayal and had some painful shit in their life, so we can imagine), I would be absolutely shut down. I'd wanted to be alone, just sitting and staring at the wall for some time, thinking everything through. Few hours or a day, maybe? And I'd definitely took my time crying. I don't think I'd go bantering and flirting with anybody on the spot. And I guess, my reaction would be totally understandable and excusable. The behavior of the MC is opposite to any "normal" reaction in such a tough situation. That is why I guessed they may be in some state of a shock, so that these - jokes, smiles, seeking for a company - are some abient reactions of a kind, protecting the MC from breaking to pieces. But, yes, this is not the ideal explanation. Simply the only one I found at the time.

Upd.: I just thought, that maybe it is not some inner reaction of the MC's brain to prevent serious emotional and psychological damage, but their decision? Growing up in isolation, being the least important member of a royal family, maybe the MC simply started to believe at some point that their thoughts and feelings are meaningless too, and nobody cares and wants to acknowledge them? But that'd mean that the MC is even wreckier than I initially thought. 

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Yes, I agree. I also want to comment on the last paragraph: I think that's definitely another great angle to look at it and I'd love for it to be explored through maybe a few inner emotional thoughts and slip ups in the further episodes, kind of like "I'm not good enough to belong. You're so much more important.", maybe a scene where the MC completely breaks down and blames themselves for everything? Maybe survivor's guilt, a sort of "I'm nothing, why am I alive instead of my sister? You're right, I can't do anything - I should've been dead instead." I really want there to be some kind of emotional blow up 0: maybe from holding everything in? I guess I've been looking at things from an abandonment perspective, kind of like, if I grew up knowing I wasn't anyone's priority, I'd feel worthless, fearful of new relationships and act very passive because I simply don't matter. But maybe instead I'd seek emotional support, to not break/stay strong (like the MC?) and try my best to please everyone because they matter so much more than me ? Or maybe, kind of a, I'm the only survivor, I have to be strong when my family cannot.

That definitely is some intense layering of emotions though, and I feel it has to be very well written for it be conveyed 0:  Since at the very core no matter whether the MC pretends to be joyful or is seriously withdrawn, the MC still should show some sort of self depreciation from their past. Knowing that they never mattered and don't matter? Is that very cruel of me to expect or want? It can definitely still be done, and I hope it is shown somewhere if everything is a playful facade.

i love everything about this game, it's really amazing and the fact that the developers listened to our wishes and opinions an changed some things about episode 3 it makes me wanna cry , the team is amazing and i enjoy playing it, definitely my fav game so far! You are doing an amazing job!! <3 

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Definitely enjoyed the changes that came with the patch. The character exposition now feels more mutual, rather then forced. Everything flows a bit better and feels more natural.

I do look at Damon saying he won't apologize and feel like that's some metacomment towards those of us upset with him, though. That's fine, Damon. Don't apologize for telling us you have our backs at the bar, then immediately offering us up to our killer thirty minutes later at the hangar.. But don't trust me to stand behind you with a gun, later, either. If your life is ever on the line...I'll go with the logical choice and see how you feel about it. xD 

God, I'm in such a love/hate situation with Damon's character. I love and want so badly to understand him. But seriously... Well, I explain more in my comment on the Ch3 patch page. xP

Poor Damon's taking a lot of heat at the moment lmao. I agree: I personally like his flighty, coldhearted decision - adds angst :3 - and I wouldn't expect any less from him, but that doesn't mean he gets to joke around and be all chummy with the MC afterwards. It was all sugar, no spice. If I had a say, everytime he tilted their head up to look at him he'd lose a finger :)

Again, cause we all love/hate him so much. xD My MC is a very kind Tilaari, but if you try things with him, he usually gets sassy or stubborn. So I look forward to a chance to get back at Damon. (no matter how tiny it is) xD

the game is just amazing! <3 

Thank you so much for listening to our wishes and opinions! I love that we have the option to skip some of the background stories, it adds a lot more replayability. I'm honestly floored that you'd be so caring about your players as to make a patch just five days after the episode was released! You guys are amazing, thank you so much for the work you put into this!

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I'm a little ovewhelmed right now. This is so unexpected, I must admit, I didn't know I needed all these changes, too. Suddenly I opted out hearing the backstories of half of the crew, and it felt so right, like... wow. I don't know how I hadn't seen it earlier but it's definitely more realistic this way. Besides, it doesn't seem like it changes something between them and the MC at all, just gives more sense of privacy (on both sides). And the interaction with Damon, it feels lighter, certain things are conveyed more clearly, so I feel calmer about the whole situation. The only thing I didn't quite understand is how the choice to change who the MC answers to works because nobody brings it up so there's no actual change, but I guess it'll become clear in the next episode.

So yeah, I want to thank the developers too and say that I trust them to do the right thing. I'm clearly not the best at this myself anyway :D But I did get the feeling that the game would be great from the very start so I don't plan on going anywhere until the end. Thank you very much! <3

I am honestly really proud of this team! A lot of us expressed some distress about how chapter 3 was written and developers responded to this. 

You can see the full patch updates on the development log. 

I was feeling a bit weary after reading chapter 3 but with a team like this that really responds like this to their players--I am in this for the long haul. 

Thank Andromeda six team

Just played Episode 3! I can't tell you guys how long I've been waiting for this update, and to finally meet our mystery man, Vexx (who is quite *vexxing* lololol). My heart is still with Damon, but I feel like it's actually getting harder and harder for me to pick a favorite. All your characters are so well fleshed out, and the sprites and background graphics are beautiful. I was hoping for a longer update, but I understand that it takes a lot of time and work to make this all happen, so I'll just anxiously await your next one!

Loving the game so far - can't wait to see more from you as this progresses its episodes as well as in the future :)  can't wait to see how things develop - specifically June :)

Episode 3 was a whirlwind of emotions from shamelessly flirting with Vexx and exploring more of MC's back-story and their relationship with Vexx, to present time. I was flirting with June and hoping to romance him later on as the story progresses, but Vexx is also an interesting character. His involvement with the incident came as a shock. Moreso, when he acted out ruthlessly towards MC.  That moment broke my heart as I was still in shock with his role in MC's family assassination. 

So heartbroken over what transpired with Vexx, I naively thought to myself that at least I'll have June's kindness and love, but alas when MC came forward with their newfound identity, that too ceased. 

June's sudden avoidance and cold attitude was a lovely icing  on the cake. Other than MC's horrible romantic love life, episode 3 is kicking off the story with new questions. We also learn more about each Andromeda member's back-stories and their views on MC's father. 

Vexx is an intriguing character. While trying to set up a past romantic relationship with him, I've noticed that at some point he seemed concerned and hurt for MC, but quickly replaced with a mask of indifference. It makes me think if he originally intended to hurt the royal family, but not find himself involved with one. I wonder if he's regretting his decisions and just how much role did he have in the royal family demise? 

Andromeda crew members seem to suggest that MC should take up the throne and build a new better future, so it is interesting to see how we get to shape MC and how they will grow.

ANDROMEDA SIX is a fun, whirlwind of a game and I can't wait to play episode 4 and see how the story unfolds! 

I rather like everything so far, and I'm very excited about Vexx. I love how you handled the flashback first in chapter 3, really helps the reader feel exactly like how the MC feels! I already have an idea of how he'll be redeemed, if my theory about 'what really happened' is right.

Also... I just wanted to remind people that this is up to chapter 3. If things feel odd or out of place or without a reason, well, yeah... Its the beginning of the story still. It's like watching the first episode of a show, you might think 'oh that guy sucks i hate him' because a character kills someone. But then a few episodes later, they'll build up to and provide the reason and background behind that. And you'll think 'oh i get it he's ok.' So have patience and have faith, and remember that every LI has gone through things too, and 'innappropiate reactions' aren't unrealistic reactions. 

My theory is that his assholery might have something to do with being Kitalphan. Aya doesn't pull any punches when telling the MC about what happened to the planet, and while she says that most Kitalphans are over it I can't help but wonder how the hell you get over the destruction of your entire planet, killing 90% of your people because the monarch wanted to make some profit. It'd make sense for Vexx to hold a grudge over that, I'd even understand it (not that it excuses manipulating the MC into leading their entire family into being murdered).

I agree that this is only the third episode and many things can change, but then again I'm worried about Vexx's route. I cannot stress enough how much I love love LOVE redemption arcs, but they have to be earned in proportion to the crime, and Vexx's actions are borderline unforgivable. I'm not the resenting sort, I can forgive most things, easier than I probably should, but there has to be a proper build up. A tragic backstory and a half-hearted apology (because I don't think Vexx would ever fully regret the assassination of the king who had his entire planet destroyed, even if he regretted the MC's involvement and his role in it) wouldn't be enough for me, personally. I'm pretty sure there'll be more reveals about just how deep King Fenris' corruption truly ran, and while his death alone is, for me, already justified, I cannot get behind the assassination of an entire family. Unless they were involved in the corruption instead of just benefiting from it, I don't buy it.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I fully agree that every action from every character has a reason that is, if not justified, completely understandable. I'm honestly just bouncing off thoughts, trying to make sense of what we've seen so far. I really, really like Vexx as a character, and I like Damon too. Their respective dynamics with the MC are very important to the story, everyone's dynamics are. I'm just hesitant to forgive their actions unless there's a proper build up, not just a sad past.

I want to have faith but redemption arcs are easy to botch up, especially when it comes to good-looking, white male characters. They can get away with a lot more shit than female characters and characters of color can. Again, my intention is not to argue - I'm just vocalizing my thoughts. My apologies for using your comment as a jumping board to get into my own opinions.

That was wonderfully put, you really put into words one of the things I’ve been worried about going forward. Only difference is I’m far less forgiving, and so far I’ve been keeping myself going by pretending that the MC is a lot more Machiavellian than they seem, and hoping that revenge is around the corner lmao. 

Maybe your chance will still come, the patch notes say that the MC will really have a chance to form their personality from Ep 4 and onwards haha

I do hope the MC can grow out of their innocence if they choose to, it'd be really fun to replay and try out different personalities and endings. I probably won't, because I'm a coward and a softie who usually sticks to replaying and swooning over the same thing over and over once she's found what she likes, but it'd be nice to have the option lol

Go forth and fulfill all your revenge dreams, my friend!

The story developing is great. Everything I would expect from good writers. I especially enjoy Vexx's entrance. And his play. 

Life is not all roses.

I was hesitating to rate your story for a while. But after this chapter I gave you the well deserved 5 star. Continue the great work.

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I'm excited to see how everything develops on from here. It's good that no character is perfect. It's understandable, not necessarily right how some reacted but it's realistic. As cheesy as it sounds: Nobody is perfect. And that's why this game is here. It will show their development, their changes. The Andromeda Six Team needs to learn, that not every part of the royal family is and was to blame for what happened to their planets and their lifes and simultaneously the mc has to learn about the true extent of his families (more like father and uncle) impact and what they have caused by doing nothing or doing something while harming. Of course I also want to see them mutually respect each other (at times tell each other off when someone is saying/doing something that's not okay) and learn from each other.

I'm looking forward to them growing as a team, them learning about each other and accepting each other. I know the situation right now seems more than devastating but it's realistic and it wouldn't be if everyone had acted neutral to it and if nobody had blamed the mc (that's just not how strong emotions work). Then there wouldn't be any need for change in their characters, but that is important. (i don't mean a full 180 cause that's even more unrealistic but more like they have to come to terms with their past and I'm more than ready to see that gradually while playing the story).

I don’t think the characters’ reactions is what upset people the most, although some may feel they went a bit far, it was more the railroading of the MCs reactions to some of them. As they’ve said, it makes for very uncomfortable if not upsetting reading for a lot of people. I personally love angst and conflict, but constantly forcing a smile onto my MC’s face for no discernible reason after putting them through all that was downright painful. Not having an appropriate reaction available, one that the majority of people would choose, can evidently make or break a story like this. 

I would just like to add: I appreciate that a couple of people have come up with reasonable explanations for the MCs behaviour, such as shock or oppressive upbringing, but that isn’t something I can subscribe to fully as there wasn’t any indication in their inner thoughts, feelings, or words to justify this. There hasn’t been sufficient explanation as to why they behave this way in response to everything, and so it’s natural to assume that they’re smiling and flirting just... because? I think any additional information we get in subsequent chapters might clear this up, but even then it would feel a little too late for me. 

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Agreed. My issue was never really with the LIs and their reactions. They surprised or confused me, and I was passionate about theorizing the reasons behind their actions, yes.

If I have frustrations with CH3, its definitely more with the actions of the MC. Or inactions, mostly. So I'm hoping its shock, and MC has a chance to act up a little more in CH4. Or start learning to fight amongside these mercs. We'll see. I'm very interesting in seeing where this goes as its hard when you don't have the full picture. =)

completeley get that and agree! my comment was more for those that complained about the other characters :)

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Couple of thoughts if I may.

As lot of people here already said - would be really wonderful to be able just flip haters off as one of the option. All haters - from those on A6 to (potential) subjects who silently approved the murder of the MC's family. Just take revenge and go gambling and drinking (happily or bitterly) afterwards. Would help to vent some frustration out. ;) 

Would be great as well to have a possibility to chose the characters you want or don't want to speak. zB like in previous chapter we can chose who exactly knocks in the MC's door.  At this point players probably already know which route to follow, so it's not necessary to speak with them all. Adds a possibility for different walkthrougs too, to learn all backgrounds.


Add/Edit:  a late thought. I think, the Queen character is really out of place. Beautiful, vain and selfish - and has 11 children? No way. More likely she must be silensed and opressed by the King.

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I really like the idea of being able to choose who to talk to, it did feel like a bit much to get everyone's backstories one after another. Like you say, it does add a great deal of replayability value.

I hope we have the option to reject people as well, it would do for some solid roleplaying and replayability. It just might be a bit much to code, giving the MC an option to literally tell everyone to bite it and go off on their own for the rest (or at least some part) of the game.

About the Queen, I think the game mentions that there are 3 different Queens? So the 11 children would be divided among them. And I don't know which race you play as (I've been on the A6 Tumblr and remember them saying that each race has a different Queen as their mother) but my MC is Tilaari and her Queen/mother was mentioned as forced into a political marriage, hating it, and only seeing her children as a duty. So I think you're right with the silenced and oppressed part, probably for all three Queens.

Now I feel myself stupid :D   There was an information in the game that MC's mother was the first wife, and with MC being youngest I assumed that all 11 had one mother. Totally missed the fact that King could have several wives at once :D

Now that would have been rough D: My MC's mother (the Tilaari Queen) is mentioned as cold and bitter, hating the King and hating life at the palace and seeing her children as nothing more than a duty. Which race did you play as,? This makes me want to replay the game with each race just to see how the Queens differ from each other.

Also, it's interesting that the youngest child would come from the first wife so I totally get the confusion! Mine was mentioned as being the third wife so I never gave it much thought. This makes me think the King probably enjoyed having all three wives for other reasons than just political ones, though... Kinda sickening if the first and second Queens felt as the third did.

I played as human. The Human Queen was described as beautiful but vain and selfish. And she definitely not hated life at the palace.

Anyway, 11 children - it's a lot even for three mother.

<<Would be great as well to have a possibility to chose the characters you want or don't want to speak.>>

Agreed. I had hoped the update would allow for that, since the devs said we'd be able to opt out of everyone's backstory. But we still get forced to talk to all of them. Cal, I get--that was pretty much the only enjoyable conversation, anyway. But I wanted to be able to avoid Damon altogether, and keep avoiding him until he decided to stop being a prick. So much for that....

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Let me just say, I found this game yesterday and played the whole thing all the way through (including the Valentine's DLC) and holy shit dudes this one is my favourite VN I've played yet. Thank you so much for the work you're doing and I hope you can all listen to the comments because they stem from our love for this game!

Now, onto episode 3...

(TL;DR - from a POV of mental illness, MC is relatable af)

I get what everyone is saying about the MC being weak and how they shouldn't have taken everything lying down (haven't done Damon's romanced dialogue yet but his friendship dialogue was... enough) but honestly? I kinda get the MC's reaction.

Might just be self-projection but I don't feel MC's reaction is strange at all. They've just remembered their past of being unwanted and uncared for, including by her own family. They're remembering how they literally didn't matter in the grand scheme of things - as the eleventh child of the king, they were never important enough to even be seen by the general populace . Whenever they sneaked out, all they heard about their family (and by extension, themself) is how evil they are and how everyone hates them. The only two people who ever smiled at them are either brutally murdered or the one who made sure it happened by using the MC.

My mental health is already unstable and I haven't gone through anything even remotely like that. What sense of self-worth would the MC have after such an upbringing and everything that they've learned in the past few hours? If it was me, I'd probably be in a deep, deep hole of feeling like I deserve everything the crew is throwing at me. I might even have agreed with Damon. Everything would be just another brick on the tower of self-hatred the MC must have built by now, unless their mind is exceptionally strong.

There's also the matter about the comments mentioning shock and PTSD, which are also completely valid ways to interpret it.

This is all personal interpretation, of course, and I absolutely wish we could have lashed out in some way. I wish we could have told Damon to fuck off, and I wish we could have stormed out on June. But most of all, I wish the MC had the option to break down crying.

On another note - the situation with Vexx was absolutely horrible in the most delicious way possible (I'm an angst hoe all the way) and I am very curious to see how the writers could possibly redeem him, because as things are now there's no way I can see that happening. They'll have trouble enough with Damon and probably June - Vexx will be nigh impossible.

Edit: Added a TL;DR and corrected some grammar

The situation with Vexx is absolutly dead end in my eyes. If you really hate somebody - it stops only when your life stops. and hate is one and only feeling for Vexx.  Damon could be valid with different MC personality - if instead of neglected loner she growed up as cold and calculating b**ch, so she could see Damon as bird of feather and use him for her own devices (and his demise - noir vibes here, I think) . And June - I just don't know. To even speak willingly with character who outright hates her - MC must have a really low self-esteem.

Oh no, I totally get what you mean. I'm pretty forgiving but I cannot see any possible way for Vexx to make up for manipulating and using the MC for over a year, leading to the literal murder of their entire family (and the MC, if everything had gone to plan!!!). I'm really curious to see how they will try though because as much as I love redemption arcs, there's only so far a character can fall and still be redeemed. The writers will really have to build it up incredibly well for "poor" Vexx to have a chance.

Honestly the only way I see this working  out happily for MC and Damon is guilt/regret on his part, which would take some major character development.  In my eyes, he's irredeemable as well if he remains the way he is now. I like the idea of MC being cold and calculating but I don't think that's what the devs are going for, judging by what we've seen so far. Of course, fanfic writers should absolutely go wild with this lol I want to see the MC make Damon eat his own words :)

June is... complicated. He's my main RO so I'll be the first to admit that I'm biased, but I understand his reaction the most and was not at all surprised, in hindsight. I think he'll regret his treatment of the MC (including the he-didn't-say-it-out-loud-but-honestly-didn't-need-to thing) but he really needs to clear his head first. And I get the MC's reaction towards him as well - he's been so kind and so good and so patient and so understanding towards the MC from the moment they arrived. They mention several times how his eyes are warm and don't make them feel judged or anything but safe, and I can understand the MC wanting to cling to that when they've never received it before, just like they clung to Vexx at first when he revealed his betrayal. As I mentioned earlier, I am absolutely biased and probably self-projecting but my only wish regarding June's scene was the option to run away and cry lol

Again, this is all my opinion. One of the things I love the most in fiction is seeing characters realise their guilt and feel horrible about it (and break down in tears of regret holy shit that gets me going), so that's what would satisfy me the most. I totally get that it wouldn't be enough for most people, though.

I hope we can see the MC grow a damn spine in confidence as the story develops, though - a lot of what was said to them by the crew is very hard to get over and they shouldn't treat it like nothing. The MC might have self-esteem issues and even some sort of mental illness but that shouldn't remain their permanent state - I want to see the MC stand up for themself as they heal.

Sorry for the long reply haha, turns out I have a LOT of thoughts and feelings about this game.

<< Honestly the only way I see this working  out happily for MC and Damon is guilt/regret on his part, which would take some major character development.  In my eyes, he's irredeemable as well if he remains the way he is now. >>

I wish I could give you more than one vote up, just for this paragraph, because it's exactly how I feel. Given that we're supposed to lock in our LI in episode 5 (I think I read that somewhere??) I don't see how Damon can possibly change enough in two fucking chapters to make this happen. I don't see him ever regretting wanting to sell the MC out, especially since he's so godsdammed nasty about it--and so determined to rub the MC's face in that fact (seriously, in the update, if the MC tries to walk away, he grabs them so he can reiterate just how much he wanted to sell them out!).

After reading what you said about June, I guess I get why people are so upset over it. I haven't played his route, so it was just a friend yelling at the MC in a fit of anger and hating on her family. Reading what you said... I can imagine it's like a sweet puppy suddenly trying to rip your throat out, with no warning. Kind of a shock, yeah??

<<I hope we can see the MC grow a damn spine in confidence as the story develops, though - a lot of what was said to them by the crew is very hard to get over and they shouldn't treat it like nothing. >>

^^Yep. I want an option for the MC to tell them all to fuck off and go do shit on their own for a while. Let them go to the MC. Though, after the chat with Calderon for the third time, my MC would feel kinda bad about deserting him--he really does accept them and want them around. Too bad he's the only one and he's too responsible to take off with the MC alone!

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Yeah, I remember seeing something about locking our routes in Ep 5, too. God, I hope Damon's route doesn't involve the MC going "ah i'm so attracted to him despite all he has done uwu guess i still care about him despite everything, he just had a rough past so it's understandable uwu". I'm with you in that Damon probably can't change enough in just two chapters, so I'm guessing maybe the devs might go with something along the lines of him not truly meaning it?? Despite him claiming he did?? Idk dude, he dug himself into a deep, deep hole. I just read the update and wow, he's even more of a dick than I thought. I really am curious to see how the writers are going to salvage his route.

June's scene hurt like fuck, in my humble June-mancer opinion. I truly expected him to be ready to beat Damon up when the latter suggested selling the MC out and was sucker punched when he wouldn't even meet the MC's eyes (even though it made sense later).

I loved Calderon's scene! I saw some comments about it feeling OOC but it felt pretty accurate to what we saw so far, he strikes me as the type of guy who can recognise when he's in the wrong and not let his pride get in the way of apologising. He seems like he'd understand the MC bidding everyone adieu though, even if he'd curse the shit out of them when he finds them again.

There's one thing I don't get, though? I don't understand why Ryona is being painted as just as bad as the rest of the crew? Not necessarily by you, but I noticed it as a trend in the comments - most people seem to be saying the entire crew shat on the MC? To me, Ryona felt like the only one besides Cal who really didn't let the MC's past get between them. Maybe I didn't read her scene carefully enough, but I don't remember her having any beef with the royal family? I'm genuinely wondering, please inform me if I'm off my rocker about this.

God, I hope we can run off in Cursa. It'd be the best way to make the chosen love interest actually try making it up to the MC.

See, you voiced my exact fear: that Damon's romance will just be the MC going "oh poor you, you had a terrible life, all is forgiven, please wuv me and let me wuv you!!!" instead of any real expression of regret on his part. And that just won't work. Like you said, he dug a deep hole. I just fear the devs' solution to getting him out of it is the MC pretending it didn't happen.

Yeah, I can imagine June-mancers were surprised when he didn't try to hand Damon his own spleen for suggesting having the MC murdered. Bash stood up for the MC, but I think Aya was the most serious about it. Aya would've kicked his ass if he'd said it again.

Cal surprised me the most, really, but like you said it really does seem in character for him. I really love him now. And like blueshayde suggested, I played his romance in the Valentine DLC and love him even more. If the devs let Damon off the hook, at least the Cal romance will still work!

I agree with you about Ryona. It didn't seem to me that she shat all over the MC. She's probably the second "softest" touch on the ship (the first being June), and I didn't think she seemed to resent the MC at all. Hell, I didn't think Aya's response was bad, either--if you ask how she is, she is surprised you're worried about *her* after all the shit that just went down. She's just not much of a soft touch, so maybe some people didn't think she meant well?

But yeah, being able to run off on Cursa is the best and quickest way to force the LI into making amends. Have a scene where the MC runs off and we get to choose who chases after us. That'd wrap that up, I think (with Damon, he'd have to express regret for trying to sell the MC out, but he could do it in the ornery Damon way when the MC asks wtf he cares since he was going to have them murdered). 

A second option I thought of for Cursa, is Vexx showing up and kidnapping the MC or even rescuing them if they get lost from the A6 crew. That could set up a nice fun scene where the non-Vexx LI could come "rescue" them from Vexx. And if it was Damon, maybe we could get a hint as to what kind of past these two had.  It'd be a good way to keep Vexx in the picture, too.

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Wanted to say thank you for your comment. I wasn't sure if I should talk about this or not earlier but since you brought it up I want to say some things too. I don't have any issues with my mental health but I have an experience that comes very close to what the MC has lived through. So I get why both their self-esteem and their emotions are in the state they are. And while my own self-esteem is on a decent level now (so I do get why people are so upset about not having the option to get angry in certain cases), what is happening with the MC's emotions is still pretty much normal for me. The suppression, the detachment; every single strong emotion that tries to surface brings so much discomfort that I would rather not feel it at all. Especially in front of other people, god, I just cannot trust them enough to not reject me or beat me up psychologically for expressing my emotions openly. So I'd rather talk with them about themselves, it really makes me feel better, because, even if it's just for a moment, I forget about my own problems and inner storms. And, honestly, I simply enjoy to learn things about people, to understand them, whether I like them or not.

So, maybe it's just me self-projecting on the MC like you said, too. But to me their reactions make perfect sense regardless. And I get why people have issues with Damon dialogue options specifically, but honestly, when I was playing and talking to him I felt so cold and therefore so calm that the very same things people found unacceptable seemed to me like they were both in large part joking. And I still see it that way, I just cannot take this all seriously - but not because I don't believe Damon wasn't serious with his suggestion, because it's just... too much. Emotionally. And now I'm really curious how he can make me personally warm up to him again. Totally agree with you about Vexx, btw, I'm just as much curious. And I believe this is possible, too - if he, let's say, wanted to save the MC and Nerissa using the same hidden passages to lead them out of the palace during the coup but didn't make it in time for one reason or another. Or just couldn't find them.

Now, you said that you wish the MC could break down and cry at some point. This does happen if you choose them to be emotional, right after they return to their quarters after talking with Ryona. It's nothing grandiose, but I must say, it's the absolute limit of what I, personally, capable of express (and how) being in a place where I know people for only a week. So... yeah, that's pretty much it. Thank you again, I never would have said anything without your comment.

Hey friend, thank you for sharing your thoughts as well. Hopefully it felt good to get it off your chest, and if nothing else then it made me happy (not happy, but you know what I mean) to know that I'm not alone in feeling this way either.

I completely understand the part about shutting off emotionally - I loved the scene with Bash (despite some of the comments saying they got whiplash from the tonal dissonance in it) because my main defense mechanism whenever emotions surface when I definitely don't want them to is to use humor. Even the romantic dialogue with Damon about "You know you'll miss me" felt very, very relatable (I didn't click on it yet so I don't know if I'll be correct) because it also feels like a joking tone and that is very much what I would use in that situation. Trying to detach myself as much as possible through cracking a joke, pretending I'm not affected. I get that people might not interpret it that way, but in my mind? The MC was definitely joking around as a defense mechanism.

That's a neat idea about Vexx! I see it working with what he said during his scene in that perhaps he tried saving the MC and Nerissa but wasn't able to, and then spent a lot of time trying to convince himself the MC was just another noble who definitely deserved it and god damn it he does not regret it he will NOT regret it. It'll still take a lot more to redeem him though, there's way too much damage to be cured by a simple "sorry your family is dead because of me, i feel terrible lol but hey i tried saving YOU right?"

And yeah, Damon definitely has a lot of growth to do if I'm going to like him again. He was my second fave but now? I might joke with you but good luck not getting punched in the dick if you want my MC anywhere near it, jackass.

I just replayed the scene when the MC returns to their quarters and sobs, and you're right. I still wish that wasn't all we got though, although I understand it as well. There isn't even a lock on the door, I would never feel comfortable enough to completely break down in there.

Maybe we're both self-projecting but hey, life is hard and sometimes you just need to project all your shit onto fictional characters. Thanks again for adding your thoughts!

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Maybe I'm going overboard right now but hey, you just made me cry my eyes out, it's such a relief to be understood and accepted like that, I love you for it. And you made me laugh so hard with your 'jackass' comment, ahh, such a good feeling. Thank you <3

I don't think it's overboard at all, sometimes things just have to spill out and you'll find no judgment from me. I love you too, friend, and may life be gracious to us both. I hope we can both heal where we need to <3

(Also thanks for appreciating my joke lol, the bastard had it coming)

First, thank you for sharing with everyone. I didn't think you and I saw eye to eye on much of anything, but thinking about it from this perspective helps. 

I get the detached, emotionally shutdown thing--that's me to a 'T' if things get really bad for me--but I think where the disconnect is (and now I'm projecting onto the MC, I suppose) is that I tend toward anger and sarcasm (well, more than is typical for me, which is quite a bit!) when the emotions get overwhelming. Anger is comfortable (yeah, there's a reason I am drawn to Damon) and "safe" because no one can call you weak when you're pissed off and ready to decimate them (again, hello, Damon).

So that's really what irked me about the discussions--you couldn't get mad. And the MC had every right to be mad at Damon. And to snap or tell him off. Him, more so than any of them, except maybe June, who my MC also wanted to  yell at. But, I guess, looking at it this way, maybe the anger hadn't kicked in yet.

Since this wasn't just one hurt, but rather hurt after hurt after hurt, all piled on one after the other without a chance to take a breath, perhaps the MC was just too overwhelmed for anything to kick in other than, "I'm tired. I'm beaten down, so just throw all your shit at me and go away." And, looking at it that way, I kinda get what you were saying about the "you'd miss me" flirt being sarcastic, because the MC knows it's not true. They know Damon wanted them dead and would still send them to certain death if he could, so barring coming right out and saying so, what else is there to do but snark? 

That said, I still don't see how Damon can come back from this. Just like I don't see how Vexx can come back from it. Those two, and June (for those who romanced him, because I see no problem with him on the friend route), are going to have to do a 180 and do it quickly for those romances to work. And it will have to be on them to fix things and to make an effort, because if it's the MC just accepting this treatment and still chasing them, those romances will be disgusting, one-sided, and require an MC who is broken and never gets their shit together again.

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Thank you for your reply. I wanted to say some things to you here and there, but after our exchange earlier I thought you wouldn't listen to me so I just... didn't. That's the part of how I work, too, it's A LOT easier for me to just shut up and listen to what the other person says. Because I fear that they will become angry at me, and I don't know how to deal with that without getting shitstormed by my own emotions, so I'd rather not provoke them. I really don't like being hated, it brings this sense of danger that people can attack me (and destroy me) at any moment, and I simply cannot stand that much tension being on guard 24/7.

And this is why I'm so calm about Damon. After playing the updated version I feel even calmer because the MC actually thought that he backed off, and that's all I need since I've already found out that it was nothing personal. I can work with that. Damon doesn't hate 'me' and is not going to kill so I can relax and try to figure out why he wanted it in the first place. It gives the understanding of how he himself works, and knowing this I can be ready for whatever he'll wish to throw at me in the future and act more confidently. It's not about being friends with him, at least, not about wishing it to be true right now. And I must say that the MC, too, thought of it more like of a possibility (in the updated version, 'maybe one day we can eventually...'), so it seems like they expect that this will take some time. For some reason the devs couldn't communicate this clearly enough the first time but I believe that's how they intended it to be all along.

Oh, I just imagined how it would feel to actually be close with Damon after everything (romantically), and honestly, it makes me want to cry. I accept him as he is now and can work together with him even but this feeling of betrayal, that initial hurt, it's still there, just buried deep under the defenses. It will take a great amount of regret on his part, of expressing that he truly feels sorry about his past behavior for me to allow him to be that close to my MC. But while I cannot say how exactly he'll come to feel that way I get the feeling that this is what his story is about: learning how to value human lives and form actual, healthy bonds with people around him.

Because, in my opinion, Damon supresses much, much more than the MC. He may even think that he's not human, just a machine or something, and that's how it should be in the world they're living. The thing with him stopping the MC when they tried to walk away, I saw it more like he wanted to teach them that they need to throw out their emotions to be ruthless like him if they want to survive rather than him trying to make them feel worse. It backfires tremendously in your case and I don't feel that good about it either, but I don't see it like he still wants to do something to the MC, just tries to show that they need to get used to things like that in general. What he doesn't understand though is that he himself projects too much on other people. But maybe he does, and that's why he relies on Cal so much and backs off so quickly - because Cal is the only moral compass he have, and Damon wants to have it.

My point is, Damon may not show it (or even realise it) but he still may wish to be better. Just take a look at his reaction being appreciated for doing something genuinely nice like securing the MC's place on the ship when they had nowhere to go. It doesn't excuse his current behavior but it does give a glimpse of how he may truly want himself to be. Because he is a human, just like everyone else. And the funniest thing, I think Damon is not very thrilled by the bold flirting MC right now. His response feels quite dismissive to me, and at the same time he accepts shy flirting MC without issues. Giving the fact that he's all about survival I think he doesn't like the MC taking danger so lightly and calmly. It's been fun and all before but now... And he did express the very same thought earlier in the story, he said to the MC in the bar that if they had brains they would've wanted to be as far away from him as possible (shy flirt option but still).

As for the bold flirting MC themself, it wasn't me who said that they're simply being sarcastic, and I don't think that's the case. After all, this is a flirt option so they must be genuine in their response. What I think is that the feeling of loss and betrayal weighs down on them so much that hey, what else do I have to lose? Might just try to flirt the living shit out of this man, maybe he'll see that I hasn't been joking. They truly want to make him feel regret for something he might have lost, in my eyes. It's, well... it's stupid, on so many levels, but the MC clearly felt a lot towards him and still feels so these feelings may simply be getting in the way of everything else. Thankfully. After all, they're not so keen on dealing with everything else right now.

Sorry for such a long reply. I truly want nothing more than to explain how this whole situation may not be so bad and unsalvageable as you think. Let me know if I succeeded or not, and if I may ask, if you can't get something I'm saying please talk to me. It's actually quite hard to keep my thoughts straight because English is not my first language and I often think more of the mistakes I'm making than about how much sense I make. So I always appreciate the discussion.

I'm glad you decided to reply to me this time, and hope you won't hesitate to do so again in the future. :-)  I'm extremely opinionated (people who know me joke about it all the time), and I have the tact of a bludgeon attached to a steamroller, mainly because I don't like beating around the bush. That can cause people to react negatively and be hesitant to respond after a couple of interactions (or it can cause them to be belligerent, and that spirals out very quickly). So, just for future reference, if I seem overly opinionated, it isn't directed at you and I will listen to what you have to say. I may not agree with it, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion--we all have different personalities and different backgrounds, which means our take on things may differ radically. That's what's fun about these boards--it's not good to live in an echo chamber! Anyway, just know that I really respect you for sharing things about yourself and why you view things the way you do. (and also, don't worry about your English--I would've never known it wasn't your first language!)

A question about Damon on the update--were you playing from a friend perspective or a romance perspective? I had noted somewhere down the board that  the friend route seems to completely let go of the fact that he intended to sell them out, which works a bit better. The romance route... the MC still acknowledges that he'd sell them out in a heartbeat if it was his decision, which, for me, puts a huge damper on the romance.

I'm glad it worked better for you, though, and that, from your perspective of being more concerned about him hating you than anything else, why it does work. I didn't see enough of a difference in the new version and the original for it to matter to me. Worse, while it seems you have the option to walk away from him, as soon as you try it, he yanks you back to rub your nose in the fact that he's not the least bit sorry he basically wanted to have you murdered. And that is where it breaks down, from a romance perspective, in my opinion. 

<<It will take a great amount of regret on his part, of expressing that he truly feels sorry about his past behavior for me to allow him to be that close to my MC. >>

It seems we agree completely, despite our different takes on the MC's response, yeah? Because what you said there is exactly how I feel about it. I just don't have faith the devs can pull it off, because they seem determined to force acceptance on the MC in episode 3. We have basically two chapters to achieve what you said above, and given the pace of things, it will not be undone. Damon can't change that much in two chapters, which means the MC will just have to "get over it" and keep chasing him until he relents. And it should be the opposite. He should be the one working, and working hard, to undo the damage he did to the possible relationship.

I also agree that Damon suppresses a lot, and that he doesn't even see himself as human, at this point. Honestly, that's why he was my favorite character from the start. I always love the characters who start out seeming like ruthless and cold but have an extremely soft heart beneath it all. I get them. Usually. For them, that shell around their heart is necessary, because being hurt for them is far worse than it is for your "average" person. It cuts deeper, and the wounds linger longer. That's who I thought he was, especially after the Valentine DLC (with the kid?) and even him talking Cal into letting the MC stay aboard. Throw in his reaction in the bar when the MC was getting harassed by that jackass, and he was perfect.

But the thing is, when you are writing characters like that in a genre such as this--where we have ten episodes for it all to wrap up and the relationship to be established--then you have to be careful about how you show the ruthlessness and coldness. Your characters are gonna do what they do, and it has to be that way--you can't let the plot dictate their actions or you end up with shallow characters--but when you see them going too far, you (as their 'god') have to throw things in the way to keep them from screwing up everything permanently (again, you can't force the other character(s) to "accept" things that don't make sense or whitewash what they did). Being able to walk away from Damon before he could ram the MC's nose in the fact that he wanted them dead is one of those moments that should've been handled by the characters' god--let the MC get away before he could open  his stupid mouth. Or, when he grabs them to run his mouth, let them slap the shit out of him and walk away (they allowed it with Vexx, to a point, anyway). 

That we didn't get that opportunity makes it seem that the devs really wanted him to have his say, no matter what (after all, it was that part, not his backstory, that hurt my MC most). The backstory just provided some understanding as to why he's such a heartless shit with the MC. If it had done without the "I'm not sorry at all!!" then it would've worked.

I think that, perhaps, you're onto something about the bold flirt option. It seems to be a trend in these games and CoG games--bold flirts are always punished for being bold, while shy flirts are rewarded for being flustered and shy. It sucks, to be honest, because it's basically saying that people who are direct should be shunned, while those who are shy should always be rewarded. It ruins it for people who do want to play a bolder character, of course, and makes the "play how you want" claims to be empty words since the writers always want to force everyone to play the way they want them to play by punishing anyone who does something different, but no one seems to care, lol.

Anyway, I've rambled long enough. Please don't apologize for making a long response. I enjoy the discussion, and it's rare people are actually willing to get into more in-depth discussions without getting all upset about it. Please let me know whenever I say something that seems hostile, though, or hurts your feelings, as that's not my intent.

I do think we agree on what can salvage the Damon romance path, though. I'm just not as certain as you that it will happen, and have a feeling the devs will just expect the MC to forget the whole incident once we see how horrible things were for him on Cursa, and that doesn't work for me because, like you said, he has to show and express regret for this to work. And I don't think that's what we're going to get.

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First of all, I appreciate your kind words. It means a lot. Thankfully, I'm past the point of thinking that everything is directed at me personally so you have no need to worry about that (but thanks, really). It just can be tiring, not to be able to find some middle ground and continuing throwing opinions at each other. It's still great to know something about you though, to see you like a living breathing person rather than like just an opponent with opinion. And I'm glad that what I have told about myself helped. I wasn't even hoping for it, I felt so outweighed by all the people who see things differently that I expected my comment to just disappear unnoticed or ignored. I was doing it more for myself than anyone else, really. So thanks for appreciating it :)

But back to business. I was playing Damon route from a friend perspective, but I tried all the other options too just to see what's been changed so I can tell it's true, the MC thinks that Damon backed off in those exact words only in 'friend' option. But I still think that the bold flirting MC sees it that way too. The problem is in the sentence construction, really. 'I'm well aware that Damon hadn't given up on turning me in out of the kindness of his heart'; it wouldn't be confusing at all if it would has been worded like 'I'm well aware that Damon had given up on turning me in not out of the kindness of his heart'. This is how I personally read it every single time (because I do believe that he backed off) so I think it's really a simple wording issue. Maybe someone should reach the devs and tell them about this?

Now, I have something very important to say. I believe I just got what you've been talking about all this time, why you think Damon's romance won't work. You think that him saying he's not going to apologize means he doesn't want to change in the first place. And if he doesn't want to change, well, then it's up to the MC to change him. I'm so dense, but I completely understand now why it doesn't work for you. And now I get why we disagree so much! You pay more attention to Damon intentions, to what he himself wants to do (and what you will have to do to change it). Meanwhile, I look at things more from the inside and think more of a possibility that he can and will change, about his personality and all that, and his intensions, well... they can change too :D

And now I know what exactly to tell you so you could understand my point! I kept it in mind, just never said aloud because this possibility was too obvious for me, but I think that maybe it's not the MC who will do most of the work in the end. You see, there's a lot of people around these two and will be even more, the people we don't know yet. So, it's only my guess, of course, but maybe some of them will force Damon to change his mind, to admit that he was wrong and actually apologize. Like, we already have two people who were really pissed off by his suggestion, so maybe there will be some huge argument or something. Or maybe it will be this acquaintance of Damon's on Cursa who, by some miracle, will turn out to be a decent person and too would be pissed off by Damon's behavior after hearing the MC's story.

This way we have no need to worry about the lack of time for the change to happen. And this works both with romance and friendship, even better with romance in my opinion. The 'friend' MC has already accepted Damon as he is and may think that they need no apology, like I do right now. They think that while they'll be working together they'll naturally come to respect and value each other, and that's fine by them. But that's not the case with the other MCs; like I said, the bold MC did try to make him feel some regret. The shy MC, well, I think they're more concerned about the fact that Damon doesn't think of them as a part of the crew - because he'd stood up for them if they were, clearly. So they feel insecure about the situation. But that's why they, too, may need to hear his apology, even if they don't realise it. It's not healthy what they're trying to do after all.

So, I believe this is what's going to happen. Maybe I'm wrong but I get the feeling. Besides, I believe the devs are too aware of what's really happening and who is in the right and who is in the wrong to pull off something like you said, with the MC chasing Damon and trying to make him change despite everything he did and said to them. And, honestly, I've been hesitant about who to choose - him or Bash - from the very beginning, so if somehow it won't turn out the way I like, maybe it's just never meant to be because it's simply not my thing. And I have another problem, really, I had to throw Vexx into the mix now, because from the personality standpoint, provided that he was genuine with the MC before the coup, I'm afraid I like him the most. How he will redeem himself I have no idea, and I don't want to even begin guessing, there are just too many unknowns to tell anything certain at this point.

And, oh, you're playing CoG games too! Don't know anything about the trends though, I'm not a regular player because I'm very picky. But I think it's okay if there's actual reason for the LI to respond that way. Damon clearly has the reason so I see no problem here. I said it only to emphasize how much he cares about survival in general, to the point that he starts telling others what they need to do to stay alive, to actually care about people. But I still may see things, it was only a feeling I got from that particular interaction, so don't pay much attention to that part.

Sorry it took me so long to answer. I had to rewrite almost the entire comment because of my sudden realisation, and it's not very easy to write them in the first place, haha. But I hope this time I've truly been helpful. Anyway, it feels so great to actually understand you and other people, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts.

Yeah, a combo cocktail of PTSD, shock, and severe psychological damage is the only way I can stomach the MC's responses to everyone's treatment of them. Barring that, the MC would just be a pathetic wretch. 

For Vexx... the first two times I played it, I actually found Vexx less sickening than Damon. Just played the update and now they're about equal. I don't see how Vexx can possibly be redeemed and forgiven for using the MC to murder their entire family. For Damon... I guess I get how the MC could eventually become friends with him, if they're the type to be totally aloof about everything (read: completely shut down emotionally), but a strong or emotional MC would either tell him to fuck off or be too hurt to ever let it go.

The problem with Damon is for the MC that romanced him (like mine), because what he intended to do and what he still wants to do is no better than Vexx. How he treated the MC in episode 3 is akin to kicking an injured puppy. The only way he could fix things is to do a shit ton of sucking up, which isn't his style, or to do something that won't happen (like chasing down an MC that decides to walk away, and making it clear he does actually care and is sorry for wanting to sell them out. And the last part will never happen, because he's not sorry and never will be. So meh. 

June... just my perspective, but I don't see how he said anything totally unforgivable. He's hurt, personally, and he was kind of a dick, but at least he didn't try to hand the MC over to a murderer, then rub her nose in that fact and reiterate that he still thinks it's the best option. So he's fine in my book. Too bad my MC has no interest whatsoever in him!  :-P

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So I just played the updated version (thanks for cluing me in on that, I had missed it completely!) and wow do I have thoughts on it.

I'm with you on the Vexx thing, I still don't know how he could be redeemed at all. Mind you, I'll still try his route out because I'm holding out on the hope that he'll break down in guilt (something I deeply enjoy seeing) at some point but that's hardly enough redemption for all the shit he pulled. The more you think about it, the more sickening it gets - I used the flirtation options during the flashback just for the added angst upon the reveal (also because it makes sense for my particular MC to fall for him during her time at the palace) and I can't stop wondering what's going through his head whenever the MC flirts with him. When he asks the MC "Are you mine?" the second time we flirt, and the MC nods. Does he get some sort of sadistic satisfaction, knowing that he's got the youngest royal wrapped around his pinky finger? If the MC had died, would he see seducing them as an achievement, something to brag about among the other revolutionaries? The ultimate notch on his bedpost? I kinda want to write something about it, just to explore how fucked up he might truly be.

Then again, he did have some pretty heavy tsundere undertones (like how he almost showed concern before putting on a mask of coldness and bitterness again), so I suppose it all might just be a ploy of "he didn't mean it he's just trying to push the mc away bc he doesn't want to admit he likes them uwu". Which... makes sense? I guess? I understand that way of thinking, but it would definitely still not not enough to redeem having the MC's entire family brutally murdered by manipulating the MC for an entire year, though. What good is "he really did end up falling for them while undercover as a guard" if it still didn't hinder him from selling them out and leaving them to die?

I just played Damon's route in Ep 3 for the first time, after reading what you said and holy fuck, I feel sick. I tried the "You know you'd miss me" option and while I could easily imagine it as a defense mechanism from the MC before playing it, the fact that the game says the MC's enjoying this makes me sick to my stomach. I'd only played the friend route before, so I didn't truly understand. As you say, Damon's going to have to work his ass off trying to make up for that kind of fuckery.

(On a related note, I followed the link to your fic a few comments down and damn, dude, you wrote everything I could have wanted - put that bastard on his place if he thinks he can treat the MC like that)

Also!!! If you stay and listen instead of walking away, he mentions how Zovack wanted him for some long-term, boring assignment which ended up going to some red-haired dude!!! Damon literally would have done what Vexx did, if he hadn't thought it was too much of a bother!!! What the FUCK!!!

June's thing wasn't bad at all, not like Damon's or Vexx's. I completely understood where he was coming from, I did his scene at the strip club so I kinda already had the gist of his past and I even think he reacted pretty tamely (he... apologised several times in the same scene despite how angry he was? Not to be too biased, but he's literally an angel?). It hurt like shit, but it was the good kind of angst which comes from both sides having valid point of views, in my opinion. I even agree with him, in a sense. The MC might not have any blame, but as part of the royal family they still benefited directly from his suffering, even if it was unknowingly and unwillingly.  I'm not saying he was right to yell at the MC when they just watched their entire world crash down and burn, but I get it. When I said he'd need a little redeeming, I meant more in the sense that he (and the MC, honestly) needs to heal, a lot, before he and the MC can move forward. Though I'm definitely, definitely biased ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Still wish the MC could have stormed out on him, though, but mostly because I'm self-projecting and as much as I use humor as a defense mechanism there's no way I'd be able to face him without crying lol

I'm demure irl, despite my own psychological issues. cool to be called pathetic wrench for not having hoedown gun bearing  hyper-aggressive personality, and flipping  a massive tantrum with people I have disagreements with. cool and not ableist at all. 

Hey, I know this wasn't aimed at me and while I cannot say what EvilChani meant for sure, I don't think they meant to call you, specifically, a pathetic wretch. It might have been poorly put, but I think the sentiment was more along the lines that an MC who, if they don't have any mental illnesses or psychological issues, just takes that kind of treatment without even defending themselves needs to learn their own worth and not let people walk over them like that.

You say, and I'm copypasting, "I'm demure irl, despite my own psychological issues". I'm interpreting that as meaning you do have psychological issues (I apologise if I'm incorrect). In this case, I don't believe EvilChani is including you in the "pathetic wretch" statement. I think it's unfair to assume they're ableist or that they have a "hoedown gun bearing hyper-aggressive personality", especially when in another comment they've mentioned that anger is a defense mechanism for them. I don't know if they have any mental illnesses or psychological issues of their own and neither do you.

I don't think having a demure personality is a bad thing. If I had been in the MC's shoes, I'd probably have taken it all without snapping at anyone, too (maybe a wisecrack or two, but that's my personal defense mechanism). We are all different, and the discussion surrounding "the best way to react to how the MC is treated" is a highly subjective matter.

Could EvilChani have worded it better? Perhaps, but it's no reason to become passive-aggressive. Please let's be respectful of each other here, none of us know what is truly going on in other people's minds.

I apologise for butting in when it's not my discussion to have, but I'd rather try to mediate things than letting them escalate further. I suppose that's MY personality. If either of you feel I have stepped out of line, feel free to ignore me and go at each other's throats. Just please be aware of the old cliché that everyone is fighting their own battle.

If my assumption that you have psychological issues are correct, I hope you find healing. From one mentally ill person to another.

<<the sentiment was more along the lines that an MC who, if they don't have any mental illnesses or psychological issues, just takes that kind of treatment without even defending themselves needs to learn their own worth and not let people walk over them like that. >>

This summed it up quite well, so thank you for responding before I had a chance. :-)

Also, as you pointed out, I do not include people with mental illness and psychological issues in my "pathetic wretch" statement. That's why I said the only way the MC's response works for me is if they do, indeed, suffer from PTSD, shock, and psychological damage due to the way they were treated growing up. Barring that, their refusal to stand up for themselves and to take the abuse that was dished out to them with a smile, is something I find pathetic and unacceptable.

For Vivi, being demure is all well and good, but the "demure" people I know would never accept abuse the likes of which was dished out to them by Damon. They wouldn't yell or resort to physical violence, but they would politely and calmly tell Damon that they don't wish to speak to him anymore, and that, since he feels so strongly about handing them over to a murderer, they would prefer if he kept his distance from them until he's changed his mind. Then, they would calmly walk away. That's demure. Accepting abuse is not. 

And, while I'm on this, for someone who immediately hopped to the assumption that you were being judged, you're awfully quick to hop to judgment against someone you don't know. At all. The hoedown comment was unacceptable and rude and, unlike what I said, it's clear you meant to be directly nasty to me. I don't appreciate it, and I ask that you refrain from making assumptions about  me or throwing names unless you truly wish to have a shitwar that will end up getting us both thrown off the board. But I will not sit by and be attacked and not fight back. So I suggest you don't reiterate those comments.

What I said about the MC seeming to be a pathetic wretch was directed at no one and, as I said above (and kiwisorbet accurately deducted) it was not directed at someone with mental illness. If you do, indeed, have mental illness, then I hope you get help. I also hope you learn not to take things said about fictional characters so personally and to try not to assume anyone who says something that rubs you the wrong way actually meant it to be an attack on you.

Kiwisorbet, thank you again for responding. You were correct in your take on the situation and I appreciate you trying to clarify. :-)

You were pretty nasty yourself saying that anyone who doesn’t defend themselves is a pathetic wrench unless they have a mental illness i was just replying to nastiness and rudeness with nastiness and rudeness in kind its kinda u have the right to snap be rude and angry but not anyone else? OK

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Hi! I hope my comment doesn't come off a rude, but would it be okay to ask how the MC seems to suffering from shock or PSTD, particularly in the interaction with Damon? 

I replayed the game, in V3.1 and from what I saw the MC's interaction as, they seemed very quick to joke/smile (in the comment about cats) or their identity as a royal ("I could have your head" said jokingly in the non-flirt option) and they're very empathetic and considerate of Damon and his past/ why he chose to throw them to Zovack? Also, the MC seem to want to make a good impression on him, because even if the MC walks away, you can either flirt (gain his attention), or to befriend him. I think the way the MC is interacting with Damon, they feel a little bit outgoing (joking), and even understanding to his past and plight?

This is completely my own personal opinion, and I haven't experienced PTSD or anything like such, but when I analyze the MCs interactions, I can't really relate to what I've believe are typical actions for a MC, suffering from shock/trauma from their past (  their entire family being killed for being royalty and being betrayed by Vexx, their only friend. Also knowing that Vexx wants them dead just the same.)  The MC seems to be really quick to bounce back and throw jokes, especially to Damon - who suggested what I see as one of the most shocking things that he could suggest - the MC dying just like her family. By the hands of their murderer in cold blood. The MC is satisfied with just knowing Damon changed his mind for now. There's nothing that I would really attribute to shock?

For example, knowing that my family is dead and that my best and only friend, also planned for me to be dead with themI wouldn't have forgiven Damon's comment, or want to befriend/flirt with another person would be okay with seeing me killed. How could I possibly want to interact or feel okay with socializing with someone like Damon if there was such a glaring fact that he'd stab me in the back just like Vexx, my only friend? 

  Personally, I feel like the MC resolved/ forgave Damon for his comment very quickly? In the way that if the MC were in shock/ PTSD they'd overthink, take his comment to the heart, have a huge fear of being betrayed/killed, rather than treat the comment as a "okay, he said it, but he doesn't mean it to do it now, so that's okay." I really don't want to offend anyone, so if you think that the MC's reactions were on point with shock/PTSD I'd really like to know and I promise I'll try my best to relate to their actions.

Hi there! It didn't come across as rude at all, please don't worry about it! A quick disclaimer before I reply, though - I do not have PTSD nor any sort of psychological training, so I do not feel I have any authority to decide if what the MC feels or thinks is a clear consequence or symptom of PTSD. All I have are theories based off how I have heard other people describe their experiences, and I would very much like to hear the opinion of a person who has PTSD regarding this topic.

Another disclaimer - while I said the explanation that the MC has PTSD or shock is valid, I wanted to make it clear that I did not. personally, interpret the MC's reactions and thoughts as them having PTSD. Like I said, I think it'd be a valid explanation but it is not the one that I would personally use.

Now since that's out of the way...

In my opinion, the MC probably has a very, very low sense of self-worth. I personally interpret their joking as a coping mechanism since it's something that I recognise in myself, but it's not a perfect explanation since, as you mentioned, the MC seemed pretty quick to forgive (which is definitely not something I would have done in that situation). They seem almost incapable of taking offense when someone yells at them undeservedly or treats them like crap - which is something I can see being a consequence of the way they were raised. A royal without any relevant opinions and used only as a pawn in political schemes.

The quickest way to diminish someone's power is to laugh about it. In my mind, joking around with Damon was a way of trying to make him think the MC hadn't been affected by his behaviour. Joking around with Bash and Aya were a way to 1. distract themselves and 2. put up a strong front. Nothing screams strength quite like a smile, I think. The trick is not letting people see it's fake. I just wish we could have seen more of the MC's thought process.

I like the interpretation that you and harmonia5 were talking about above where the MC might be trying to protect themselves in a hostile situation. Again, I still think that should have reflected on the MC's internal dialogue, but I suppose the writers meant for us to insert our own explanation for each of our MCs' actions.

Another point for me personally is that I'm a HUGE people pleaser. I can't stand the idea of being disliked and I can (through some self-projection lol) see the MC being the same, especially when they're so used to being irrelevant their entire life. It could even be a combination of both - the MC is trying to make Damon like them both because he's one of the few people they (kinda) have, but also because if he likes them he won't want to sell them out again.

I whole-heartedly agree with you on the Vexx angle. Based off what they just found out, the MC definitely should have a ton of trust issues. However, I don't have any personal experience with betrayal from a loved one (something I'm very thankful for) and have honestly no idea how long it would take for the trust issues to set in. Is it something that builds up when you're betrayed again and again, or is it immediate? Not specifically aimed at you, I'm mostly musing for myself.

Actually, the more I think about it the more I agree with you. I don't know much about PTSD symptoms besides what you've just mentioned, and it does become stranger and stranger that the MC would react so tamely to Damon even if they had PTSD. But again, is PTSD something that sets in immediately or only after some time has passed? The MC hasn't exactly had much time to process everything - it's probably not even been 24 hours since they saw Vexx.

I think the shock thing is more with the MC being numb, which is something I can get behind. Even the emotional responses are quite tame (then again, I can be quite emotional but dislike breaking down in front of people so it could be that for the MC as well), so in my mind everything hasn't really dawned on MC yet. Not even the full implications of Damon's suggestion. For now, they seem to be satisfied that Damon won't sell them off just yet, but I hope the realisation can hit them like a brick in the next episode or so. I've mentioned this before, but I really, really hope we can run away on Cursa.

So to summarize, I think the MC's reactions had more to do with numbness and low self-worth than PTSD. I think numbness is a part of shock?

I'm sorry for taking a while to reply (uni might be cancelled but their assignments are not :(  ) and for maybe not answering your questions in a satisfactory way. I found myself agreeing with you the more I thought about it, haha

This is really good! So well done! Can't wait for chapter 4.

I enjoyed pretty much everything in the new chapter. Keep up the good job.

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